Direct from the annual meeting of the American Nuclear Society

In a first ever sit-down one-on-one interview with a nuclear energy blogger, Dale Klein, former chairman of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), answered questions about the key issues of his tenure at the NRC. Klein continues to serve at the NRC. His term expires in 2011

It is a pretty tough act to follow when you are on a conference panel with the head of a DOE nuclear energy laboratory who says that the U.S should plan to be using nuclear fission for the next several hundred years.  Dale Klein, who has just stepped down as the Chairman of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), didn’t miss a beat, but launched right into a topic that is dear to the heart of pro-nuclear advocates.  He said that the nuclear industry needs to do a much better job telling its story, especially if it plans to be in business for the next couple of hundred years, and that it should start by publishing better web sites.

Klein pointed out that anti-nuclear groups have much more compelling, colorful, and interesting web sites even as they provide mis-information about the industry and the role of his regulatory agency.  He said that a quick search on Google turned out to list the top sites on the search term “radiation” as one promoted by movie and TV star Alec Baldwin who has no technical expertise in the nuclear field, and it shows. He called the web site “alarmist.”

His analysis is even handed.  He also observed that the website of  the American Nuclear Society (ANS) was not very attractive and no American teenager with even a nodding interest in the subject of nuclear energy was going to spend any significant time on it. He agreed that the information on the ANS web site was “reliable,” but its conservative design was never going to make any headway in reaching the general public.

In an exclusive hour-long interview with Dale Klein here in Atlanta, I asked why the head of a nuclear regulatory agency was so interested in web sites. He replied, “that’s because this is the way people learn today.” This focus on how people get and share information came up repeatedly in our conversation.

“Anti-nukes give great sound bites,” Klein said, “but that isn’t always the information the public really needs.”

Klein’s personal focus on websites led him to drive the NRC to modernize the agency’s external home page and its internal information systems. He said that there is nothing wrong with using a ‘USA Today' type approach when you have to communicate complex topics.

The changes are visible at www.nrc.gov where the content uses more pictures and shorter documents about key issues.  Klein also said that he pushed agency staff to answer questions that come from the public rather than just referring them back to a document on the website.

“I want the NRC to be the website of choice when it comes to radiation and nuclear safety issues.”

And he’s been working on attaining that goal.

“We’ve spent a lot of time developing Q&A material in plain English and one pagers on hot button issues.”

Two of the key issues that have gotten his attention are Tritium and the potential for aircraft impacts on containment structures. The aircraft scenario figured significantly in the relicensing of the Oyster Creek plant in N.J. Anti-nuclear groups went to court after the NRC rejected their contentions, and the federal court ruled against the intervenors. The NRC voted to approve relicensing of the plant.

Small Reactors

The buzz on small reactors has been quite loud since Babcock & Wilcox announced last week their conceptual plans for a small 125 MW reactor. I asked Klein why the NRC was reportedly reluctant to enter into the design certification process for small reactors. He said it is not a case of the agency being reluctant, but that no one has shown him anything of substance, and, he said there are no U.S. customers for them.

However, he said that among the firms developing small reactors, B&W has a better than a coin toss chance to succeed with their newly announced plant. The reasons Klein said are that the firm has decades of experience fabricating components and building nuclear reactors. Also, the plants will be built here in the U.S.

Overall, he said, the firm has the “organizational horsepower” that the other small vendors lack. He said that by comparison, the NRC was getting “ideas for new reactor designs” every month, but that doesn’t mean anyone will be able to buy them. They still have to comply with the NRC’s stiff safety and technical requirements before they can come on the market.

“To be successful the firms promoting small reactors must do more than make sketches. There are the same serious issues with safety systems and reliability that the vendors of large system have to address. These issues apply with equal vigor under our regulations to small reactors.”

On the other hand, Klein also said there may be a market overseas for small reactors especially in countries that cannot afford to build 1,000 MW giants. He added that the Next Generation Nuclear Plant (NGNP), a high-temperature gas cooled design, “could be a niche small reactor to supply process heat to the chemical industry so they don’t have to burn fossil fuel to run their factories.”

Small reactors and international relations

I asked Klein about Hyperion’s claim that they have a customer in eastern Europe and that it might seek certification of their design from a less demanding regulator than the NRC. He dismissed that latter idea out of hand.

“It will be difficult for Hyperion to sell a reactor that is not certified by the NRC. We are the gold standard for nuclear reactor safety reviews and other nations look to us for leadership.”

While Klein didn’t say so, his next comment left me with the clear impression that no reactor vendor should get any funny ideas about having a softer time with other nuclear regulators.  The NRC is pushing hard to get nations with nuclear plants on the same page when it comes to nuclear safety.

He said the NRC is promoting international cooperation with the IAEA and a multi-national combined effort of nuclear regulatory agencies to talk with each other about common issues.

“The goal,” says Klein, “is to develop global reach for nuclear safety with strong, independent regulators in other countries.”

He mentioned that the NRC has sent its engineers to France, Finland, and China which is where new reactors are being built. This work is being done under the auspices of the Multi-National Design Evaluation Program

I asked Klein if there are there any lessons learned that have come back to the U.S. He said yes, but that these lessons will come in the future.

“If we do recycling, the U.S. will learn from the French, the British, and the Japanese all of whom have been involved in recycling and re-use for decades.”

Highpoints of being chairman

Asked to single out his personal satisfaction with elements of the enormously demanding job of being a regulator of a fleet of 104 nuclear plants, Klein said the number one improvement in terms of process was “more open communication.”

“We have challenges with plants every day,” Klein said, but the openness in communication has improved in terms of it being a two way street. He added that he frequently consults with the Institute of Nuclear Power Operations (INPO) when there are safety and compliance issues.

Despite these challenges, he pointed out the NRC has relicensed half of the nuclear fleet, or 52 of 104 plants, and, he said, “I believe the other 52 will come in.”

He also thinks there is the possibility of life after this round of actions. He said, “We are looking at the question of whether there is life after 60 and whether there are technical limitations to that age of plants.”

New baseload for old

Klein rejects the claim by another federal energy regulatory agency chairman that there is no new need for baseload electricity plans, e.g., coal or nuclear. John Wellinghoff, the chairman of the Federal Agency Regulatory Agency (FERC) made that claim in a now controversial speech.

“I don’t know where he is getting his data,” Klein said.

This led to a discussion of the biggest owner of baseload generation capacity in the U.S. which is the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA). Klein visited the Watts Bar II nuclear plant and said the TVA was going back to it because they realized they’d made a mistake in walking away from the huge capital investment that was tied up in it.  The project will need a Part 50 operating license, but Klein noted it was easier to restart Browns Ferry because it already had an operating license.

Like TVA, other plants around the U.S. are ramping up to build new nuclear power plants. Despite the possibility of rapid growth in the industry, he doesn’t think the U.S. will develop its own manufacturing capability for large forgings. The reason is that the Japanese and the Koreans are simply too good at it and have too much domestic know how and capability. From a competitive view, Klein said, they can expand faster in response to global demand than the U.S. can build a new plant from scratch.

Worldwide hunt for talent

Last year when the UAE hired several former and current NRC executives for their nuclear energy program, Klein complained, partly in jest,” that he was losing the talent war. However, getting qualified nuclear engineers is no laughing matter. Worldwide there 436 nuclear plants with another 45, or 10% of the operating fleet, under construction, and another 112 on order or planned. Every one of these plants needs highly skilled engineers and trade craft workers.

Klein also said the industry needs to figure out where it will get its next generation of CEOs. Not every one of them is going to be a former ‘navy nuke.’ The key quality they need to have, Klein said, “is to know what questions to ask.”

In response to a question of who he sees in the industry as they kind of person he’s looking for, Klein mentioned Jim Miller, the CEO at Southern.

Klein also pointed out that the NRC was voted “best place to work” in the federal government in 2007 and 2009.

“It is a great place for a new nuclear engineer to start a career. We have industry wide technical challenges to be solved which will have an impact on the entire nation.”

That also sums up how how Klein see’s his role and that of his agency.  He’ll be there for a few more years so look for more focus on how people at NRC communicate as they regulate.  And  NRC’s web site will continue to evolve under Klein’s watchful eye.

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